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For Sale: BlitzMax+Grey Alien Framework+PhysLite

Miscellaneous Forums/General Discussion/For Sale: BlitzMax+Grey Alien Framework+PhysLite

Arghle(Posted 1+ years ago) #1
BlitzMax and Grey Alien Framework sold.
PhysLite withdrawn from sale.

Thanks.


Gabriel(Posted 1+ years ago) #2
Are you sure you're allowed to resell the Grey Alien Framework? As I recall, Jake sold the rights exclusively to BigFish, and cannot sell it any further himself. So other people randomly selling copies here and there would probably not make BF very happy.


dmaz(Posted 1+ years ago) #3
Jake could not have sold his customers right of resale unless he specifically reserved that right... did he?


MGE(Posted 1+ years ago) #4
It's probably a grey area, but.....oops... I just had to pun that. :)


D4NM4N(Posted 1+ years ago) #5
Jake sold the rights exclusively to BigFish, and cannot sell it any further himself.
Well, no thats because he has no licenced copies to sell and can no longer issue licences.
Unless the licence explicitly forbids it then people can sell their bought licence (provided they no longer retain any copy or use it).
In many EU and other countries that 'non transferable' clause is not legally binding anyway which is why the re-sale of OEMs is perfectly legal).


Gabriel(Posted 1+ years ago) #6
Well, no thats because he has no licenced copies to sell and can no longer issue licences. Unless the licence explicitly forbids it then people can sell their licence (provided they no longer retain any copy or use it).
In many EU and other countries that 'non transferable' clause is not legally binding anyway which is why the re-sale of OEMs is perfectly legal).

Well that solves the problem for everyone who has lawyers at least as expensive as BFG. How many is that then? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?


D4NM4N(Posted 1+ years ago) #7
Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Lol :D


GaryV(Posted 1+ years ago) #8
Well that solves the problem for everyone who has lawyers at least as expensive as BFG.
You seem to forget that BFG did not own the product at the time he bought it. His contract was not and is not with BFG. Unless you are calling Jake a liar, BFG bought the framework, not Jake's company (or jake himself) who psychris has the contract with.

BFG having lawyers means nothing. Afterall, they can't sue you in court. In most countries (including the USA) a part of copyright law pertaining to software is you have the right to resell it. A judge can only rule in accordance with the law, and unless BFG would commit perjury and provide false information to the judge, they would not have a leg to stand on. They would lose (a judge can only rule in accordance with the law) and have to pay your legal expense.

Legal threats are most often just that, threats. They are a form of extortion. Companies make legal threats as a means of intimidation when they legally can't do anything about a situation. If a company has a legitimate gripe with you, they will have you in court quicker than you can blink.


Robert Cummings(Posted 1+ years ago) #9
I don't think its right to sell indie products on again... they are really cheap to begin with aren't they and its kinda cool to help a programmer like yourself?


GaryV(Posted 1+ years ago) #10
Rob: Personally, I agree.


Sledge(Posted 1+ years ago) #11
I don't think the framework is even available -- there's no lost sale here and it's surely better (and perhaps even more gratifying for GA) that someone buys the license who is going to make use of it.


John Galt(Posted 1+ years ago) #12
You're not allowed to advertise Blitz products for resale here... at least I wasn't.


Sledge(Posted 1+ years ago) #13
Oh I was just continuing the conversation about reselling the framework in relation to Grey Alien. In respect to BRL and the 'Max license, I suspect that being accommodating in such circumstances is probably a good long-term strategy, even if it stings a bit in the moment. Regardless of how gratifying it is to support smaller developers, psychris still has a license he needs rid of -- may as well use it as an opportunity to show how excellent your customer service is.


Oddball(Posted 1+ years ago) #14
I cannot speak about Grey's framework or BlitzMax, but I can comment on PhysLite. Here are the facts. Only I have the right to send a copy of the PhysLite source to anyone. I am the copyright holder. You need to get my permission to send copies of PhysLite to anyone. It doesn't matter if the license that comes with PhysLite says this or not, it does say it by the way, it's just a fact of copyright law.

Now, anyone who wishes to sell on their PhysLite license is free to contact me privately.


xlsior(Posted 1+ years ago) #15
it's just a fact of copyright law.


Hate to break it to you, but the doctrine of first sale exemption that's part of the copyright legislation disagrees with you there:

The first-sale doctrine is a limitation on copyright that was recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1908 (see Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus) and subsequently codified in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. 109. The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained. This means that the copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy end once that copy is sold, as long as no additional copies are made. This doctrine is also referred to as the "first sale rule" or "exhaustion rule."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine


GaryV(Posted 1+ years ago) #16
Oddball: You are not selling the source code, you are only selling the license to use the source code and that license can legally be transferred.


Arghle(Posted 1+ years ago) #17
Oddball: I'll contact you privately to arrange the transfer, assuming this bundle sales. Alternatively, I'm happy to remove PhysLite from the bundle on offer. I don't wish to upset anyone.


Oddball(Posted 1+ years ago) #18
@xlsior: I have not sold PhysLite on a disc. So if someone wanted to use First-sale doctrine then they'll need to send the buyer their hard drive. It even says exactly that in the link you posted.
So, for example, if the copyright owner licenses someone to make a copy (such as by downloading), then that copy (meaning the tangible medium of expression onto which it was copied under license, be it a hard drive or removable storage medium) may lawfully be sold, lent, traded, or given away.
I authorise the licensee to copy PhysLite to their mod or project folder, but not to other peoples hard drives.

@GaryV: You are closer to the situation at hand, but the PhysLite license as written gives no power of sublicense to the licensee.

Like I said, I suggest anyone wanting to sell their PhysLite license contact me privately.


Dwapook(Posted 1+ years ago) #19
Hey.. I'm interested in whichever parts of the bundle are legal for you to sell!


Arghle(Posted 1+ years ago) #20
Dwapook: BlitzMax is remaining for which I'm asking $40.


GaryV(Posted 1+ years ago) #21
@GaryV: You are closer to the situation at hand, but the PhysLite license as written gives no power of sublicense to the licensee.
It doesn't need to. Your license can't circumvent the law.


Sledge(Posted 1+ years ago) #22
@xlsior: I have not sold PhysLite on a disc. So if someone wanted to use First-sale doctrine then they'll need to send the buyer their hard drive. It even says exactly that in the link you posted.
I believe the implication is that they can do that, not that they have to. (ie You can sell or lend a computer with licensed code on its hard drive without necessarily being in breach.) You're both clearly prepared to be reasonable, though, so the specifics of the law are pleasantly moot.


CodeGit(Posted 1+ years ago) #23
This sucks. My principles would never allow me to resell something that was bought so cheaply from an Indie developer. SHAME ON YOU.


Matty(Posted 1+ years ago) #24
@CodeGit - I guess he could have just given it away for free then....I wonder if that's legal though?maybe?as long as he doesn't keep a copy?


Hypothetical situation:
My friend buys and licenses 3ds MAx Version xxx
I buy Maya and license it to myself.

Both of us like the other's software better so we do a swap, removing the existing software from our hard drives / media storage devices etc

Sounds reasonable to me, yet all the stuff in EULAs about "non-transferable" suggests it couldn't be done this way.


CodeGit(Posted 1+ years ago) #25
Lets be honest, there is a good chance that the software, even though technically sold, will still be used by the original guy as it was not removed from his hard drive. Piracy???


Hotcakes(Posted 1+ years ago) #26
Of course. Ask any corporation - every customer is always a pirate and must be treated as such at all times.


Armitage 1982(Posted 1+ years ago) #27
Damn too late... nobody else want to sell his license of Grey Alien Framework ??
I was interested but Big Fish doesn't even sell it (this is ... hmmpf).


Dreamora(Posted 1+ years ago) #28
In many EU and other countries that 'non transferable' clause is not legally binding anyway which is why the re-sale of OEMs is perfectly legal).


Thats actually wrong.
The transfer right is bound to physical media and does not apply to pure digital licenses at all.

Why do you think is there such a push on the games market to digital distribution?