The 'stencil shadow' thread 3 | DSS_1.0Final
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/The 'stencil shadow' thread 3 | DSS_1.0Final
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| hello! this is the new stencil shadow thread and the new release! screenshot:  downloads: http://www.dc.chat-blitz.de/devilengines/Downloads/DSS_1.0f.zip executables only: http://www.dc.chat-blitz.de/devilengines/Downloads/DSS_1.0f_exe.zip previous shadow threads: no 1: http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=62378 no 2: http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=62809 worklog: http://www.blitzbasic.com/logs/userlog.php?user=8270&log=660 feel free to use this in any projects you want :) with a little credit of course ;) if you have any questions about it, ask them! this is the final version, but if there are major bugs, i will release updates such as 1.1 or something like that :) cu! |
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| Is b3d support? |
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| no. |
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| Cool - have to DL and check the "final" demo! |
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| Ah, really nice. Thanks! :) |
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| What do you think, will be animated b3d support? IMHO (almost) everybody use animated b3d who makes game in Blitz3d. But if somebody show me how can I export animated model from 3DS MAX in .3ds or .X I will use that fileformat. |
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| I still get graphics card does not support bumpmapping on all the exe demos, which is definately not the case. Any chance you can fix this? gfx440mx 64mb Stevie |
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| IMHO (almost) everybody use animated b3d who makes game in Blitz3d. ^^i know, but i stilol cound't fix it, so i decided not to support it at all. I still get graphics card does not support bumpmapping on all the exe demos, which is definately not the case. Any chance you can fix this? check out the source, and disable all the 'RuntimeError' commands! |
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| I amended the runtime in the shadow include and now I get a mav, on this line ... If DX7_GetStencilBitDepth() < 8 ?????? |
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| I was having the same error before. I just updated my blitz version to the latest one and that fixed the problem... |
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| Remember to update user libs, add all include files etc.... :) But I have other problem: I CANNOT use CameraPick! :( Any way to deal with this problem? |
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| i know, you have already emailed me about camerapick... but i couldn't solve this bug... |
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| works fine here and I have to say wow - didn't think I'd see a system like that running at these kinda framerates in blitz (on my PC it doesn't drop below 100fps on any of the exes except the island one) |
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| very nice indeed, the Sample3 water looks great. |
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| Ok!!! I can working for optmizzation for this! GOOD!! Bay Devil Credits : Devils Child & Vincentx(Vision&Design) . |
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| i know, you have already emailed me about camerapick... but i couldn't solve this bug... You emailed me about the shadow meshes, but not about picks :) (At least I didn't see email regarding that in my mailbox) Anyway. I presume you render the screen twice or something? Could you do a function that would return camerapick after the first render, but before the second render? EDI: I tried to put camerapick in the render function put it didn't help :( |
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| I tried to solve this problem by doing 2 boxes - one would be pickable object and the other would be hidden and used to cast shadows. This worked - almost :) There's 2 problems with this approach:  I cannot use ALPHA values to the box without shadow... as it messes things up.  The box that's marked in the picture... it's not rendered properly. All the four boxes should be on same Y position, but for some reason it looks like some of the boxes are on top of others - you get the picture) (Notice: there's 2 boxes in same position: one hidden with shadowmesh, one visible without shadowmesh) ode\mesh=CreateCube() ScaleMesh ode\mesh, width#, height#, depth# ;SetShadowMesh(ode\mesh, False) ode\shadowmesh = CreateCube() ScaleMesh ode\shadowmesh, width#, height#, depth# HideEntity ode\shadowmesh EntityAlpha ode\shadowmesh, 0 EntityParent ode\shadowmesh, ode\mesh SetShadowMesh(ode\shadowmesh) UDPATE: so basically my problem is that when I add SetShadowMesh(mesh) to any entity... it turns into non-pickable object. |
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| Maybe the shadow rendering function swich off the entitypick property. Try calling Entitypickmode after each rendershadow. |
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| Alright... I managed to solve this (Thanks Tim/indiepath.com) Instead of trying to make the shadowmesh pickable, I created a pickable pivot. First I tried parenting the pivot to ode\mesh, but that didn't work. Now I simply position the pivot to the same position with the box in every frame. Nice and clean. :)  EDIT: Mike, just read your note - thanks for the tip... but I managed to find the answer. |
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| Hi Devil :) very very good job :) !!! But one question :) what the .SHW file format ????? if i understand this file are used to compute more quickly the shadow casting ? but how i can generate this files ? And very very great job ! i w'ill try to add this under my egypt demo ! |
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| these files are the cache files for faster pre-calculating the shadow casters(not the receivers of course!) use this: SetShadowMesh(entity, true, "blah.shw") ;true means, shadow caster, false would mean shadow receiver the shw files will be generated automaticly! if they are not found on the harddisk they will be generated otherwise they will be loaded. and if you want an entity not to receive shadows, or not to receive but cast shadows, set it's entityfx to 1. |
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| Whaoo !!! very ingenious system ! |
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| thx :) btw: i found the bug why the island sample is so slow! in the file "sample3 - island.bb": the line "flip" must be deleted. it alreay has been flipped in updateprogram() |
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| Hi :) i have find a little glitch with one of my mesh :)* do you want B3D file to make test ? For information this problem is removed when i use : SetShadowLight(Light,True)  |
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| Thanks a lot for sharing, very nice, devil o_O. I guess this is the best, probably the one and only stencil shadows solution for Blitz3d out there. Seems like it's fast. Tho, I never would work with a static set of shadow casters. Dynamic inclusion and exclusion of shadow casters is required, something that may use the camerarange to skip most of the shadows. |
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| Hi, works the shadow system with md2 models? |
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| hello! at first i must thank you for your compliments :) works the shadow system with md2 models? no, md2 entities are not even meshes, they have no vertices or triangles and i can't access them. also b3d animations are not working! 3ds and x animations are working perfectly. this shadow system doesn't matter about whether an entity is 3ds/x animated or not. both are using SetShadowMesh()filax: the fish problem could be caused by a few reasons: 1. the mesh is not completely closed 2. infinite far clipplane doesn't work => set the camera far range to 100000000000. we need infinite far clipplane, because volumes must be closed at the bottom for pointlight sources and the far clipplane cuts them off. cya! |
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| Hum ok :) i'll try to find problem :) |
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| Hi all Optimized for fast speed 25% Bye B) |
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| send it to me please, i'll check it out! |
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if you wanna know what i'm doing right now(after the shadow system): the DevilPhysicEngine is a physic engine build on blitzODE. |
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| whait !!! |
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| Very impressive, really... but.... You know what you want to do but the animated b3d support of shadowsys would be important, no? This is my honest opinion nothing else. |
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| there are b3d animations supported in the 0.9 beta. but they doesn't work very well, so i decided to delete this feature. |
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| Ok, this is clear. What do you think, the author of Blitz3d can give you help to risolve this problem? Or you are over this problem and want to make other things. |
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i know. homewhere at the rendering precces, there are the transformed vertex coords. i don't know why there is no array for the transformed vertex coords...VertexRealX(surface, index) for example: md2 models; while they are rendered, marksibly could save the transformed vertexcoors into an array. mark: why aren't you doing that? |
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| Maybe because the md2 format is around 10 years old? |
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| And Blitz3D not that far behind it... |
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| but at some point of the rendering proccess must be the transformed vertex coords... |
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| As far as I know, md2 animations are from (very wobbly) vertex morphing and can only use one texture. |
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| Is something program for converting animated b3d for .X format according with this shadow system? I need a good shadowsystem (this is good) but I'm working with b3d files (created by Max6) |
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| I all, I devil, The new DSS fast speed (ver. 1.1) over 25% optimizzed and addizional function for optimize back ground object static animation object. this version is a payment coming soon..... |
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| Mike: no because you most likely have bone animations which means you must use B3D. |
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| Must pay for v1.1? No problem. Quanto? |
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| daredevil: before you make it commercial, we have to talk about the payment splitting and the price!! |
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| I'm sure then everybody here pay for a full featured (I mean animated b3d too) shadowsystem. |
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| Hi Yes Devil the payment splitting is not a problem! send me the e-mail for tour proposal ;) Bye |
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| I think it's too early to start asking for money. Besides, "free" was one of the top features of this project. Consider the fact that MAX3D is beihnd the corner and older screenies show stencil shadows, combined with physics etc., I' honestly suggest to revisit your business plans. Then again, if MAX3D will never be released, you could be lucky. But I guess that's not likely. DC - did you try to hack the transformed vertex data using absolute memory scanning? (see my "hack" thread in tutorials). I do as well believe the transformed data must be lieing around somewhere. If not in RAM then maybe in VRAM, but it must be somewhere. |
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| Right you are but I'm sure here are many people who dont rewrite his project for MAX3d and because of this reason is important a blitz3d stencil shadow system too. If must pay I pay. But basicly you are right. |
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| @jfk: the hack? i'll search in the code-archives. @all: it was not my idea to make a comercial system out of it. daredevil wants to... but anyway, if you don't want the 25% speedup, you can stay at the freeware version of course :) EDIT: i didn't find any 'hack' you were talking about.. :( |
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| 25% is much, 25% speedup is lifesaver in gamedeveloping |
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| well, i wanted this system to stay free for ever. but daredevil wants money for it... daredevil: forget about a few dollars! when max3d releases, nobody needs it anymore, and like jfk said, the best feature is, taht it is free :) so PLEASE agree with me that it will be free :) please :) |
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| Wait!.... Wait the paymant is very low cost 5 euro (is a symbolic payment). you create a game free ? the payment has been a decision that I have taken in order to not only make large modifications to the program for 25% in more but for atotal accelleration. devil child it has only contributed in active way to the plan consequently I think not to render the new modifications free. bye all |
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| Right you are! 5 euro is correct price! DareDevil! Se per caso fai una versione con animated b3d, io pagero piu! Ho bisogno di questo! |
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| Hi mike ITALIAN text: |----------------------------------------------------------------- la versione con b3d animation non so se sarą fatta al momento mi interessa fare una versione pił veloce e con qualche utility in pił. se ti va puoi iscriverti al forum Blitz Italiano. http://www.blitzitalia.altervista.org/ potresti tradurre quello che ho scritto? Sei italiano? Ciao |----------------------------------------------------------------- bye all |
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| That physics engine screen shot looks remarkably similar to EasyToks, albeit not as good (dare I say it)... |
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| DareDevil: I'm hungarian but I'm better in italian. Here must use english. Translation above: Daredevil will make a more faster version of this shadowystem , now without animated b3d support. |
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| DC - I was talking about this: http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=57663 It shows an example on how to determine the Alpha of an Entity. Or rather how to determine the adress that can be used to read the alpha setting. |
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| [qoute]That physics engine screen shot looks remarkably similar to EasyToks[/qoute] i know, i know... i am only using his media, but blitzODE. [quote]albeit not as good[/qoute] work of a week doesn't look very good. i am developing... jfk: i get userlib not found. but i put the decls file into my userlib folder :(... |
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| It's using the RTLMoveMemory function of the kernel dll. I'm sure you can make it work somehow. This function is used to read data from absolute RAM adresses. Now, the handle of an entity usually is a pointer to a structure. You may have to "tag" a value, then search for it in this structure. EG: in the example alpha is set to 0.3141 (I think) and then it's found using this "peek" command. |
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| BTW of course you may try to sell it. There may be many people who want to continue with Blitz3D. If you can offer them stencil shadows that are practically usable, then go for it. Maybe a special license would make more sense, eg: free to use for noncommercial things, 50$ for commercial releases. Just a thought. |
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| it still isnt working :( maybe it depends from the system, because the kernel dll is in the windows directory! i have got windowsXP proffessional. any idea? |
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| Does it still say "userlib not found" ? |
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| yes. |
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| well then you made something wrong with the decls file. Make sure kernel32.decls is in userlibs, containing the mentioned lines. Also make sure it isn't defined multiple times in futher decls files. |
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hey! remember doom? |
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| News!!!! I have include the support static multi object for back ground is very fast before the cure  after the cure  Comment? bye from Vincentx that works in the shadow |
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| Devils Child: Please shrink your sig! :) Nice work BTW :) |
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| cygnus: everyone has his interrest at some hotspot :) my largest interrests are shadows(stenil shadows) but if you look into my signature(worklogs) you see the particle and the physic engine! i am not programming games, but i am programming engines! daredevil: please send me the new shadowvolume version :) |
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| but...but... I was talking about your Signature :) its huge :) takes up a quarter of my screen on this particular monitor! You can have all three, but they could be even 1/5 that size, maybe smaller :) |
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| Hi Devil I work to this plan the evening and in the week end, during the day I make the technician computer science and I write when I can. as soon as complete the release I send to you all! why it has not answered to me to the demand for split for the DSS sale? it must be of agreement before making the sale! ;) bye |
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| cyngus: sry for mis understanding you. you are right about my logo, i have just replaced it with "Devil Engines". maybee i add some slogan or so :) |
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| please send me later the your new engine for optimize Bye |
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| How's the water coming DC? |
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| mark: the water is already supported in the 1.0final one :) => see the user interface ;) |
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| Demo test Release 1.4 http://digidownload.libero.it/enzo_light/DSS_Release_1.4.rar bye ;) |
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| great :) but  send me the source :) btw: whats that new dll there^^? |
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| Is a bug ;) 28 FPS is a good time i have write the new detect cull face is it generate a bug No problem i abjust this bug and send the version Bye bye |
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| You guys need a website. All these links and threads = cumbersome. www.devilengines.com is available. |
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| i have thought about a website! but i didn't find a good place to store it ;( btw: daredevil and i are only programming the shadow system. the particle and the physic engine are by me only... |
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| I have found this all very exciting. I'd like a lighting system for B3D too. |
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| wow... I've been away for a while because my computer died (the mainboard) I should be back into programming early 2007 (*sigh* so much catching up to do!) and I'm really happy to see that volumetric shadows have came along in blitz nicley... but can they be used in a gaming situation? I ran the tech demo on the TAFE computers.... it ran at an ok speed... not amazing... but I guess these computers aren't built for gaming... are they fast enough to use in gaming? and the animation problem... does it look like *.b3d files will ever get volumetric shadows? would making a *.Md2 style animation system through blitz work? (would it be too slow?) well... great stuff here :D definatley makes me wanna jump back into programming NOW! |
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| Hey Kal, long time no see. Hope you're getting fixed back up ok :-) I don't know what I'd do if my computer died right now... |
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| well, at first i must say, that for BIG games all shadow solutions are slow. b3d animations will maybee be possible, or maybee not. if it will be possible, it won't be a big slowdown. but it will be A slowdown, because the triangle normals and the vertex coords changes in b3d animated meshes. md2 won't ever be possible, because md2 models are entities; and not even meshes. they have no vertices at all! |
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| for BIG Games is possible using, if use witch the new engine... Coming Soon 1.2 final - Support Multi Shadow Object - Enable and Disable shadow Object Automatic - Light Shadow for range object Bye |
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| I'm waiting the big news: The animated b3d support |
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| in the DSS is not support b3d animated object!! |
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| Yes, I know. For this I wrote "BIG news" (would be) (C'era un scherzo:)) |
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| please don't mind! daredevil doesnt understand much english. i think he is writing through a translator... |
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| DC I've scanned the Ram. Somewhere at offset 200500 to about 206000 seems to be some kind of matrix that is used to transform the vertices. I don't know how to calcualte the offset (guess it depends on the mesh) and I don't know how to extract the vertex data from the matrix, but it may be useful. Again, I don't see why this should not work on your machine. It's a very basic kernel function, and as long as you access the RAM that was allocated by your app, it should work under XP too, even with DEP etc. activated. |
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| excuse for the my english :( in order it makes me to pardon check the new old method vs new method. Support all new function: - Ambient light auto setting parameter shadow - Support Multi Shadow Object - Light Shadow for range object http://digidownload.libero.it/enzo_light/Demo Test DSS_Release_1.1.6.rar Bye |
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| New is about 24 FPS Old about 12 FPS funny point: new with mode 3 goes up to 60, old only around 20? Core Duo T2500 (2x 2Ghz) GeForce 7600Go |
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| thats because the shadow volumes won't be calculated each loop, because the light and the object doesn't move :) |
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| is the new function "Static Shadow " for background and add in the new "Light for zone" bye |
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| This is nice - any idea when the Final 1.2 is ready to download? |
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| i don't know... daredevil wants to sell the 1.2 version for a low price. i have allways been against that, because devil-engines has allways been for free. well, i guess, i have to brain-wash hin :) |
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| If I make the game for price is correct ? If I create the version free (no pay) for the managment Shadow for litle game is good! For big game payment low price is no problem 5 euro is a simbolic cost for all games your create |
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| Firstly, Thanks daredevil and devils child for making such a cool opensource engine for the community. Secondly sorry to bug you but im having some problems :) You say not ever to use renderworld() but i am trying to implement it into a verlet physics project and when i use render(1) instead of renderworld() the verlets do not calculate and everything just falls through the floor. How can I get past this? |
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| i got the same problem as you when i tried to implement this into my games... at first: if you wanna use cubemapping, please do not use renderworld inside them, user render(0). '0' means no shadows and is good for cubemapping rendering!!! try to disable all updateworld commands in your game. maybee this is the cause for this... |
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| Thanks for the suggestion. But commenting out the updateworld's leads to the same problem, the physics arnt calculated and hence things are falling through the ground. Im using a verlet physics system by the way. |
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| hm, sorry, then i have no idea how to go on :( |
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| =( thanks anyway |
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| @Devils: Yeh... if you put small payment (5 eur is nothing) that's fine - I just want to get a FAST shadow system in my use :) Just finish the darn thing asap and we pour money into your direction ;) |
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| if you want to see my homepage, go here: www.devil-engines.net !! since now, you can download all the releases there! cya |
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| Put some advertising (like GoogleAd) on your page and please everyone to look at these intresting ;) bids. Would make (maybe) more money than selling it (Because more people would do that ^^). And the sallary @ GoogleAds is not bad! I got for 12 clicks 4.12$ It's just an idea ^^ |
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| well wildstorm, to make it commercial, it is kind a late i guess ;) but also it has always supposed to be free. look for my slogan in my sig... :) |
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| keep on your good and free work devils child!!! |
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| This really looks neat and useful. My gfx card doesn't support bump mapping. Can you do it without bump mapping? My gfx card is crappy. EDIT: Maybe I should read all the posts. I figured it out. |
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| you could command all embm looking commands out. there are only a few. i was thinking about making ENBM optional, but the next gen pcs will support it so i guess you have do it yourself :) |
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| news everybody!! you know, the beethoven mesh (20.000 polys) takes 23 secounds to initialize before casting any shadows. now it takes 6 secounds. thats because i have optimized the initvolumecaster() function... |
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look: you can make an entity casting a shadow. if you want the entity to cast shadows from an optimized mesh, you can do it as follws. take a modeller and optimize your mesh. set the optimized mesh as a shadow caster with entityalpha 0 and then load the visual gemoetry. |
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| Hey Devils Child, I have a question for you: Is it okay to use your engines in commercial games? of course, by giving you a decent credit at the credits screen or whatever :). And another thing...I really loved your engines! finally i have something to use to increase my already low quality of my games! wepeee! xD Thanks for them, and byez. |
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| of course you can use these engines in commercial games(with credit of course) ;) money is not important to me - i have enough of it. oh and thanks for the compliments :) i will release an update for the shadow system sooon and a new release of my physic engine soon after it. |
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| okay i released the 1.2 update. no big changes...just several speed hacks. and a 300% speedhack in the initvolumecaster() function. also the cache file version has changed - but don't worry. the shadow system will detect that the cache files on your computers are old and it will automatecly recreate them. you have to do just... nothing :) see www.devil-engines.net for download |
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| Hi devil, Download the demo for the my site for1.3.1 test speed and post the image |
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| no link - no download! |
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| No Martini no party!!! http://digilander.libero.it/eyeandlight/Page_6_0.htm in this page is link Demo 1.3.1 Good Halloween :D |
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| Hi devil You have tested the new version? whats result? bye |
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| My test: Old version 16 fps, new version 26 fps with same pc (versione vecchia 16 fps, la nuova e 26 fps sullo stesso pc) Complimenti:) |
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| :D |
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| News!!! I Working a new solution silhouette for fast shadow speed :D if this solution is ok 50% over actual speed Bye |
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| Sounds great:) Keep up your work |
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| sorry, didn't test it yet, i will test it as soon as i am home. daredevil: on which DSS version is this built on? the current official is dss_1.2u(pdate) |
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| is the ..... not remeber.... join all code in One? bye |
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| Sounds good, keep up the good work! |
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| Hello i have a small problem; When i wanna that my Shadow camera be parent of something, all shadows just disapeard. Why it's happening ? Sorry for my bad english; Poish Member ;) |
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| Make a pivot, parent that instead. Then use PositionEntity camera , EntityX(pivot,1) , EntityY(pivot,1)...etc |